Mail.Liberal-Judaism

• Art Yaffe <yaffe@usf.teradyne.com>

• Scott Ryan <jscottr@matinfo.com>

• Ruth Etkin <retkin@appstate.campus.mci.net>

• Herman Rubin <hrubin@stat.purdue.edu>

• Rabbi Arthur Waskow <Awaskow@aol.com>

• Richard Schwartz <SCHWARTZ@POSTBOX.CSI.CUNY.EDU>

• Danny Magill <danny@neoteric-infobahn.com>

• Chaim Frazer <frazerch@carroll.com>

From: Art Yaffe <yaffe@usf.teradyne.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:33:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Christian Comments on Jewish Concept of Moshiach

Pastor Templeton,

It appears to me that you are a pious, curious, intelligent, and sincere
individual trying to reach an understanding of a viewpoint that differs widely
from that which you have been taught, which you believe, and which you teach
to your congregation.  Please be very concious that a couple of thousand years
of Christian love have made us Jews very, very wary of anyone who professes an
interest in us and our beliefs while preaching Christian beliefs.

We Jews are beset today by Christian sects who have borrowed (some would say
"stolen") some of our icons in order to deceive and proselytize us and our
children.  I'm sure that some readers of of this list would prefer that you
stay away based on their fear that you are bent on that very course of action.

My "vote" is that you be allowed and encouraged to lurk, read, learn, and ask
a question now and again.  That's what I do here (except that I don't ask too,
too many questions ;) in an effort to learn what other liberal Jews believe.

Arthur Yaffe

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From: Scott Ryan <jscottr@matinfo.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:57:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Critically Examining Our Judaism, From Within

Thanks to Jerry Blaz for his insightful overview of the history of secular
Jewishness for the past fifty years.

I'd like to add two brief points -- to complement Jerry's, not to disagree.

First, the identification of Jewry as a primarily or exclusively religious
community began more than fifty years ago; the Reform movement clearly adopted
this identification in its Pittsburgh Platform late last century, which is one
reason why it took so long for Reform to hop onto the Zionist bandwagon.  But
as most of us know, Reform observance was "officially" supposed to be purely
ethical, not ritual or halakhic; Jerry's of course right that the resurgence
of "religiosity" didn't occur until later. In any event, the beginnings of
Jewish secularism are much older, dating back at least to Spinoza's time in
the modern world and all the way to TeNaKh in the ancient world.

Second, while it's true that the examples I named (Nordau, Ben-Gurion, et al.)
were staunch Zionists, I wouldn't want secular Jewishness to be -identified-
with Zionism. The general point I wanted to make is that secular Jewishness
has a long and respected history; it's only in the last half-century or so, in
the midst of a flurry of quasi-halakhic nostalgia, that Jewish "religiosity"
has come to be seen by some as the only valid form of Yahudut.

As some subscribers are aware, my own primary identification is with
Humanistic Judaism, the most recent in a long line of secular Jewish
movements. The HJ movement constantly has to fight for recognition of its
validity against the "religion-only" view of Judaism; I hope an increased
awareness of the history of secular Jewishness will help to change that
fact. And as I've previously argued, such awareness might also help us to
place Jewish peoplehood first, where it belongs, and be genuinely pluralistic
on "religious" matters.

L'shalom,
Scott

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From: Ruth Etkin <retkin@appstate.campus.mci.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:46:04 -0500
Subject: Is kashrut outdated?

I'm a new member and, having been raised in an orthodox home in Brooklyn, I'm
familiar with the reasons for following the rules of kashrut as posted by so
many.  But, even as I kept all those rules...for all those reasons...I always
questioned how basic "prohibitions" became extended into far-reaching
practices.  For example, how did the prohibition against seething a kid in its
mother's milk (a noble and humane edict..one which I still follow..no
stroganof dishes) become a prohibition against having ice cream after a meat
meal, or having two sets of dishes,silverware, tablecloths, potholders, etc.?

Also, every Pesach I questioned how we (Polish) Jews absolutely forbid rice
while our Sephardic neighbors required it.  If it's tradition, then it's not
halacha?  I'm not questioning individual practices, of course, just raising
points to ponder.

Thanks, everyone, for making this list so thought provoking!
Shalom to all.

Ruth Etkin (now in Boca Raton, Fl)
retkin@appstate.campus.mci.net

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From: Herman Rubin <hrubin@stat.purdue.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:13:19 -0500
Subject: Is kashruth outdated?

The gist of the problem is, "What does God want us to do?"  A part of this
problem is, "How do we know it?"  I will keep the specifics to the matter of
kashruth, but some general material, which is also included in the preceding
posts, is needed.

The main source is the Written Torah.  However, most historians, including
Jewish historians, do not believe that what we have was given by God to Moses,
or even existed in the time of Moses, or was given verbatim by God to anyone.
I believe we all agree it was inspired by God.  This automatically puts doubt
into its accuracy.

The Orthodox, and to some extent the Conservative, also believe that the Oral
Law was given by God.  As this was not written down until roughly 200 CE, and
the writing of it was even prohibited, this comes out as even more
questionable.

Now take the exegesis of "Ye shall not seethe a kid in its mother's milk."
Hebrew can be ambiguous, but the word "its" is unambiguous.  This is, in my
opinion and in that of many others, the prohibition of a pagan rite, which is
just as it says.  As milk and meat today come mainly from different animals,
at most this would prohibit veal with milk, and not even that.  So I see
nothing wrong with cheeseburgers or beef Strogonoff.  I cannot consider the
claim that the Oral Law went further as other than rulings of judges, not as
basic law.

The other is the question of permitted food.  Here we have a less clear
situation.  However, again I am not willing to go beyond the letter of the
Torah, and suggest that each of us has the obligation to decide what is from
God, and what has man attributed to God overzealously.

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From: Rabbi Arthur Waskow <Awaskow@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:52:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Living Trees & The Tree of Life

In January 1997, more than two hundred Jews gathered in far northern
California, to create and eat together the sacred meal of fruits and nuts and
wines that celebrates Tu B"Shvat - the New Year of the Trees. They had
gathered in a grove of ancient redwood trees.  The redwoods stood above them,
silent in their majesty - 250 feet tall and more. They were, they are, the
tallest living beings on the planet.

The celebrants planned to complete the Seder by walking illegally onto the
land of a corporation that was planning to log some of the last remaining
stand of ancient redwoods that are in private hands. There they would plant
redwood seedlings and risk arrest for trespass.

At this Redwoods Seder, Naomi Mara Hyman looked up at those great trees and
said: "What would a Torah Scroll be like that had these eytzim ["trees"] for
its eytzim [the wooden poles that hold the spiraling Torah scroll]? How grand,
how tall would such a Torah be!" Then, looking at the crowd who had come to
celebrate the Seder, she said: "Each of us would be just the right size to be
one letter in such a Torah Scroll!"

And that is what we are, of course: each one of us a letter in God's great
Torah Scroll of all life on the planet. Yet being a letter is not enough.
Nowhere in the Torah does a single letter stand alone to bear some meaning.
In English, the word "I" is but a single letter, standing alone; but in
Hebrew, even the word for "I" has several letters. No one, not even "I," can
stand alone.

When one person, one corporation, thinks it is a single letter that can stand
alone, that single letter turns to flame and the great Torah Scroll, the earth
and the society in which we live, begins to burn.  It is a community of lives
that make up words, verses, books of wisdom in the living Torah made of earth
and air, wood and water.

The community of Jews that gathered in the ancient redwoods to live within
that giant Torah Scroll came because they also live within the other ancient
Torah, the weave of wisdom that Jewish tradition often calls the Tree of
Life. If it were not for that Torah - no Tu B'Shvat; no Seder; no gathering of
Jews to affirm that these trees were God's and should not be wantonly
destroyed.

Which of these Trees of Life encompasses the other? Does the Jewish Torah live
as one thread of human culture in the human strand of all the species that
make up the weave of earth? Or do we see the forest as a "forest" because it
lives with us within the weave of words and melodies, dances and desires, that
human beings - in this case, Jewish human beings - use to recreate the world?

Each. Both. At moments of our history, our spiritual journey, we have focused
on one Tree or the other. The mystics of Tzfat saw every earthly tree as
simply fruit of the Tree Divine whose roots are in the heavens. The Zionist
kindergarten teachers of Tel Aviv saw the notion of the Mystic Tree as a
mystification to be healed by rerooting Jewish life in green earth.

We live in both these Trees of Life. We must make both of them into words,
sentences, whole books of wisdom. Only our lives can give life to both of
them.

* Copyright 1998 by Arthur Waskow.

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From: Richard Schwartz <SCHWARTZ@POSTBOX.CSI.CUNY.EDU>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:02:34 -0400
Subject: Tu B'Shvat & Tzadakah

David A. Karr responded:

> Right, another no-death food: milk. 

Actually, many animals are killed in the production of dairy products;

1. to increase the amount of milk a cow gives, they are artificially
   inseminated annually.  And the male calves are taken away almost
   immediately, put in very small, cramped spaces, fed an artificial, high
   caloric, iron-free diet to keep them anemic, and then slaughtered at a very
   young age to provide veal.

2. After the cows' milk-production drops off, they are often slaughtered for
   meat.

3. During their milk producing years, conditions for the cows are very bad, as
   they are programmed to give far more milk than is normal.

There are some great substitutes for cow's milk (which was really designed for
the calves), such as soy milk and rice milk.  Please consider: What other
species, under natural conditions.  drinks milk from another species, and
drinks milk after a weaning period.  Recently, the consumption of milk has
been connected to a number of diseases and allergies.

Best wishes,

Richard (Schwartz)

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From: Danny Magill <danny@neoteric-infobahn.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:11:44 -0500
Subject: Re: Request for information on Parshat Beshalach

> I am seeking information on Beshalach, on which I am giving a d'var Toarh
> this Saturday, Feb. 7. I would like to focus on the idea of whether or not
> we should rejoice/mourn over the destruction of our oppressors. (I got this
> idea from a midrash in which God reprimands the angels for singing along
> with the Israelites as the Egyptians drown in the Red Sea.)

This is true - however, Shir Hayam (the song by the sea) also tells us that
G-d cast the dying Egyptians onto the shore (instead of letting them die in
the depths) specifically so the Israelites could see their enemies vanquished.
Opinions on this vary as to whether it was so they could rejoice or so that
they would know that Egypt could no longer pursue them and they were now truly
free.

Art Kamlet wrote:

> Practical ways of following this include our custom of removing several
> drops of wine during the recitation of the plagues when reading the Passover
> Haggadah.

This also true - we should balance this, however, against the inclusion in the
Hagadah of the didactic calculation of how many plagues the egyptians were
made to suffer. Certainly we are commanded to remember the spilling of blood.
But the blood that was spilt was the blood of opressors - of those who defied
Gd and enslaved Israel.  And I am not sure that at some level we are not
encouraged to rejoice in what was done to them on our account as part of the
seder.

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From: Chaim Frazer <frazerch@carroll.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:26:06
Subject: New List: Chafetz Chaim Foundation

The Chafetz Chaim Foundation, dedicated to promoting Laws of Proper Speech,
has established a Website whose URL is <http://www.chofetzchaim.com>.

At present, the site provides the opportunity to subscribe to a List which
distributes one lesson a day in Laws of Proper Speech (taken from the works
of Rav Yisrael Meir Kagan, author of Chafetz Chaim), and a brief
description of the Foundation's work (along with mailing address and phone
numbers).

Chaim Frazer

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"It is not our task as liberal Jews to complain about the Orthodox attitude or to be bullied by it, but rather to choose our legitimate path according to the inner logic and development of liberal Judaism" (Rabbi Walter Jacob)

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