Mail.Liberal-Judaism

• ao692@lafn.org (John Sherwood)
• Lynn Saul <LSAUL@west.cscwc.pima.edu>

• rosin@espinc.espinc.com (Bob Rosin)
• shaviv@NetAxis.qc.ca (Paul Shaviv)

• Rabbi Arthur Waskow <Awaskow@aol.com>

• Herb Klar <sftmaven@acpub.duke.edu>

• Herb Klar <sftmaven@acpub.duke.edu>
• Jeff Cohen <jc924@poppa.fab.albany.edu>

• gmneudel@ecn.uxa.bgu.edu (Marian Neudel)

• beryl@ix.netcom.com (Beryl Blickstein)

From: ao692@lafn.org (John Sherwood)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 05:32:20 -0800
Subject: Attending non-Jewish services

	As a professor since 1987 at a Roman Catholic Seminary, and as an
active member of the San Fernando Valley Interfaith Council for 25 years,
during one of which I served as president, I have attended countless
Christian, Buddhist, and Moslem services.  For me, the issue is moot.  Since I
love music, I have even sung along with the choirs on more than one occasion.
Notice, I said sung along, not prayed along.  Once, when they needed a bass, I
took the role during a mass.  It was the same as having non-Jews augment our
choir during the holidays.

	Therefore, for me, the question is moot.  What intrigues me is why
this is an issue for a liberal Jewish group.  I thought that kind of
prohibition went out a long time ago.  Oh well, I guess the Fench were right
in their observation, "Plus c'est change, plus la meme chose."  (The more
things change, the more they remain the same.)

	As far as I am concerned, we are in this world not to build walls, but
to build bridges.  I passionately assert my Jewish identity wherever I go.  I
just as passionately celebrate my neighbor's differences.  I invite him or her
to my home, and enjoy visiting his or hers.

Rabbi John M. Sherwood 

P.S.  One Catholic priest, who had been one of my graduate students, was
thrilled while celebrating his first mass,that his professor in Jewish studies
suddenly became the one man bass section in the small choir.

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From: Lynn Saul <LSAUL@west.cscwc.pima.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 17:27:37 +0000
Subject: Attending non-Jewish services

(I am trying to simultaneously post this to two lists--hope that works!  It's
interesting that this same subject has come up on both lists.)
I have found the discussion of attending services at Christian and other
religious institutions, as well as the religious school issue, interesting.
I have always attended services at various churches with friends, either to
celebrate a particular event or just to learn something, and have always
invited friends to join me at Jewish services or home observances for the
same reasons.  I have also observed some Wiccan and Buddhist rituals.  I also
taught a Jewish 8th grade religious school class with a comparative religion
curriculum.

I agree with the comments of Julian Yudelson and Rabbi Kraus that it is 
important to make clear both to oneself and to one's hosts/guests the 
purpose of one's attendance and possible limitations on participation.  There
may be some hosts who would be uncomfortable knowing the limitations on your
participation, and others may secretly or not so secretly hope to "convert"
you but would nevertheless be glad to have you there anyway.  

I do think that actually attending a service or other rituals of other
religious groups is the best way to really learn about what they do.  There
is so much misinformation out there.  I felt that my job as a teacher of
comparative religion was to prepare the students for what they would be
experiencing, attend the services with them, and then "debrief."

I tried, by the way, to include attendance at Orthodox and Conservative
services (this was a Reform religious school) but was absolutely unable to
get students to do this, since it was a Bar/Bat Mitzvah group or just past
that and they always wanted to attend their own friends' services.  I think
it is very important for Reform and Conservative Jewish students (and 
adults!) to have the experience of attending services of the other branches
of Judaism.  Again, there is so much misinformation out there that is best
corrected by first-hand experience.  Just attending something doesn't mean
that you have to adopt that for yourself (although you might surprise your-
self!)

There is another aspect that I personally find important and acceptable, that
might come too close to apostasy for some people.  That is that I recognize
the spirituality in other people's practices and feel that much of our
respective ritual practices as well as even some of our respective theologies
are really just different images and metaphors for spiritual experience.  With
that in mind, I regularly share with my "non-observant Catholic" partner in
lighting a candle at a roadside shrine that is meaningful to him, and I have
shared in other observances of non-Jews where there seems to be a spirituality
that I personally find sincere and meaningful on a metaphorical level.  This
in no way, to me, contradicts my Jewish traditions and understandings of G-d
and our prayers and observances.  I found that feeling expressed very well and
discussed in various ways in the powerful book The Jew in the Lotus.

I am no longer in the Reform movement and don't really want to comment on the
recent recommendation of their conference meeting to disallow participation in
Reform religious schools of children who are simultaneously being taught in
non-Jewish religous schools. It might be confusing for teachers or even the
students but to my mind religious school should be EDUCATION, not just
indoctrination.  Some dual educations might be confusing and dangerous but I
think that children with dual family backgrounds are entitled to learn about
the beliefs and traditions of both sides of their families.  I think that
children who are denied one or the other of their family traditions, whether
religious, racial, or otherwise, are just as likely to have identity problems
as those whose parents chose to ignore one side.  I think human beings,
including young ones, have a much larger capacity for doubt, questioning, and
more important, finding their own answers to those questions, than doctrinaire
religious authorities on all sides seem willing to acknowledge.

I think this is an important and interesting thread to continue to pursue and
look forward to hearing more comments from others on both lists!

Lynn Saul

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From: rosin@espinc.espinc.com (Bob Rosin)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 11:42:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Book for 'non-believer'?

Although I have shared this information privately with Eric Simon, reading the
public responses to his query persuaded me to offer this to everyone.

Many people in our congregation have found the book "Finding God" by Syme and
Soncino to be an approachable and valuable resource for learning about ten
varied Jewish beliefs about God throughout history and for developing one's
own understanding of God.  It adds some meat to Rabbi Larry Hoffman's
question, "Which idea about God don't you believe in?"  (sorry for the
misquote)

Bob Rosin

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From: shaviv@NetAxis.qc.ca (Paul Shaviv)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 13:42:21 -0500
Subject: Book for 'non-believer'?

Don't give a turgid 'manual', or an earnest 'let me persuade you to believe
this'; better give 'The Jew in the Lotus' by Roger Kamenetz, which is
up-to-date, exciting, and enough to capture anyone's imagination.  Along the
way, there's an enormous amount of info about Jewish belief(s) and the
intricacies that are on offer. I think it is the most original Jewish book to
have appeared for years.  Alternatively, although I haven't seen it around for
a long time, Alan Miller's 'The God of Daniel S.' remains for me one of the
most intelligent and challenging books on Judaism ever written.  It is a
post-Kaplan Reconstructionist approach, but it is entirely free from preaching
and cant. (By the way, where is Alan Miller nowadays?)

Paul Shaviv
Principal, Bialik High School, Montreal
shaviv@netaxis.qc.ca
Fax: +514-483-6391 (school)/ +514-488-6532 (Home)
Tel: +514-481-2736 (school)/ +514-488-8631 (home)

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From: Rabbi Arthur Waskow <Awaskow@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 19:33:32 -0800
Subject: Hanukah: By My Spirit, says the Breath of Life

Dear Chevra, I found this drusha on Hanukkah & its candles, by Rabbi Michael
Graetz of Israel, both moving and instructive. -- Shalom, may your festival be
filled with light. -- Arthur.

Many explanations have been given of the motivation of the rabbis to revise
Hasmonean history. . . .  I would like to suggest another factor in this
process, . . . the emotional and spiritual reactions to the events as they
were expressed by Jews, the people, not necessarily the leadership.

The main mitzvah of Hanukkah, lighting lights, supplies the clue to this
analysis of the emotional and spiritual reaction of Jews to the war. I wish to
suggest that the real origin of the custom to light lights was the emotional
and spiritual reaction of most of the Jews who actually lived through the
war. It was a reaction of memory for those killed or tortured in the war. I
suggest that the origin of Hanukah lights was as memorial lights for the dead.

No historical source about the Maccabean wars, or of the original celebration
of Hanukah mentions "lamps", YET it is clear from Josephus (Antiquities
12:325), and even more so from the Mishnah (BK 6:6), that it was a universal,
well-known and accepted custom of all Jews to light "Hanukah lamps", special
oil lamps for Hanukah, and place them in front of their doors. The Mishnah
preserves the custom and testifies to the fact that it was a very widespread
custom, but does not fix it as halacha. Yet, the people, the Jews, kept on
doing it, so that eventually the rabbis HAD TO grant "mitzvah status" to that
popular custom. Why was lighting lamps such a popular and universally accepted
way of commemorating Hanukah?

One talmudic answer is because of the "miracle" of the jar of oil. But, that
is 1) unhistorical ( first appears in Talmudic period, Shabbat 21b) 2) not the
"miracle" refered to in the "al ha-nissim" prayer which is meant to
specifically commemorate the "miracles" of Hanukkah.  Another talmudic answer
is the story of the temporary Menorah which the Maccabees lit after conquering
the Temple (RH 24b-25a, see also Pesikta Rabbati 2). The advantage of this
explanation over that of the "jar of oil" is that it connects the lights with
the victory and dedication of the Temple, which are the miracles mentioned in
the "al ha-nissim" prayer.

However, if we study 3 and 4 Maccabees we learn of the terrible period of
suffering and sacrifice which the people of Israel went through on the way to
achieve the victory. The well known tales of the woman and her 7 sons, the old
priest Elazar are found here among many others. No family was untouched by
tragedy. I suggest that the people lit lamps as Memorial lamps to remember the
high price of victory. The miracle of the victory was a partnership of God and
man. We can never be indifferent about Judaism, our way of life and its
values. For it to continue to flourish we must be willing to fight for it. In
some cases, that means being willing to die for it.

Antiochus posed a threat to the spiritual existence of Judaism. There was no
threat to the Jewish people's physical existence, if they were willing to give
up their spiritual ideals and values. The "miraculous" was that they were
willing to place their physical safety in danger, IN ORDER NOT TO VIOLATE THE
SPIRITUAL! The appropriate way to mark this was to light lamps: as a memorial
tribute to the sacrifice of men, women and children and as a symbol of the
spiritual, which makes life worth living.

In some ways this might have been a popular emotional and spiritual
counter-response to the militaristic heroism of Maccabees 1 and the religious
triumphalism of Maccabees 2.  Maccabees 3 and 4 are philosophical and speak of
the control of individual impulses for a higher and greater good. Memorial
lights may have been the popular reaction to military heroics, proclaiming
with their light "look at the price, only by the souls of men, the light of
God (cf.  Prov. 20:27) are these victories won". The rabbis seem to have
picked up that message of spiritual power and the preciousness of each life
vs. a message of military victory. God was not on our side, we were on God's
side, even when that cost us our lives. We must remember the casualties, the
deaths and martyrs, in order to preserve life. There is implied criticism of
the military regime of the Hasmoneans in the lighting of the lights, and the
irony is that the rabbis made that criticism the symbol of Hannukah. (In a
paper I wrote on this some years ago, I traced the custom of lighting lamps
for the dead, and the bottom line is that is was probably a pagan custom which
was adopted by Jews)

I was reminded of this while reading the discussions about Hanukkah after the
murder of Rabin. Anyone who listened to Yizhak Rabin in his later years, will
realize that the emotional and spiritual reaction that motivated our rabbis in
transforming Hanukkah is what motivated him. He spoke again and again of the
"human price of war", and of the need to give young people a vision of their
own personal future that did not include either killing or being killed.

It is amazing that the overwhelming instinctive reaction of hundreds of
thousands of Israelis was to light Memorial candles for Rabin. The same
message of spirit overcoming force, as in the ritual for Hannukah was being
expressed.  The haftorah for Hanukkah ends with "lo be-hayil etc.", "not by
force... but by My spirit", and the question, of course, is "lo" "NOT" what?
Jewish people will NOT survive, a Jewish state will NOT be able to exist by
relying on force, but only by the spiritual, by grasping onto God's spirit of
life and responsibility and making it the main value in our own life.

The lamp is a means of seeing, of searching, but it is also a means of being
seen. A light enables us to see, but it also enables others to see us. The
Hanukkah lights are ONLY TO BE SEEN. They are lights from which we can receive
no benefit, only the BENEFIT OF SEEING THEM. If a soul is God's lamp, than we
look for each others soul. We strive to reach the truth that we all are in
God's image. We can look for that light of God in others, to see their
souls. . . . just as the Midrash tells us that spirituality is like "one who
lights a lamp from another lamp, the lamp is lit and the other lamp does not
lose its light" (Num. R. 13:20 cf. below). The Hanukkah lights which we light
should help us see that.
        --- Rabbi Michael Graetz

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From: Herb Klar <sftmaven@acpub.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 06:44:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Jewish Community in the San Francisco Bay Area

Happy Chanukah to you all.

I will be moving from Durham, North Carolina to the Bay Area of 
California at the end of January. I am interested in continuing my 
tentatively expanding commitment to Jewish living when I get out there 
and wondered if some of you who live in the Bay Area might recommend 
congregations for me to look into.

I am single and would be interested in something relatively small, 
down-to-earth, conservative/reconstructionist where men and women share 
equal responsiblity in the conduct of services and synagogue affairs.

Any suggestions?

Cordially,

Herb Klar

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From: Herb Klar <sftmaven@acpub.duke.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 07:26:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Newt Gingrich and the Rambam

Thanks to the moderator for allowing the political discussion on 
Gingrichism and Jewish values to continue.

[Moderator's Note: The discussion may continue as long as it remains tied to
the question of how Jewish ethics and values determine our approach to the
social solutions. Submissions that are purely political rhetoric will be
rejected. -- Daniel]

I appreciated Bernard Rotil's comments and wanted to try to affirm or add a 
couple of points. 

In reference to:  

> Of course if you are able bodied you should be working and if you are not
> working and there are jobs, your ass deserves to be kicked in.  

I wonder how this this issue of just desserts, fits an economy in which
five percent unemployment is defined as full employment.  How would the
ethics of Judaism comment on the simplicity of the judgement that if
people don't have jobs in such an economy, it's a sign of their moral
turpitude and their children should starve or be taken from them? It 
sounds more like the Protestant ethic at best or Calvinism at worst. How 
is it that Jews are hitching their stars to that golden calf? What
would the prophets' reaction be to an economy that rests on
mass manipulated consumption, corporate speculation and profit taking,
environmental pillage, and inevitable unemployment and semiemployment and 
then turns around and uncategorically blames the unemployed? 

As far as welfare goes, most folks who are on welfare are not teenagers
(code word for black teenagers) or the children of teenagers, and most are
on welfare for less than two years. The problem of teenage mothers is
worrisome, but that doesn't contradict the fact that contrary to
Republican propaganda, welfare has successfully helped most of its
recipients manage to survive such crises as job loss and divorce and get
back on their feet again in less than two years at very little cost
(around one to two percent of the budget). Can welfare be improved? Yes
but the attack on it is not justified by Rambam but by racism and Social
Darwinism. 

Respectfully,

Herb Klar

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From: Jeff Cohen <jc924@poppa.fab.albany.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 06:45:27 -0800
Subject: Re: Newt Gingrich and the Rambam

Bernard Rotmil's comments on this issue in V5:102 was one of the best 
I've ever heard. Thank you Bernard! The current trends in "welfare 
reform" can only result in "the rich get richer and the poor get 
poorer" unless society can provide decent paying entry level jobs 
that are easy to get to for people in the inner city and rural areas. 
We also have to have affordable day care and job training available. 
Jewish values also require maintaining an adequate "safety net" for 
those who can't work. 

The question I have is, aside from lobbying Washington and the states 
for humane "welfare reform," what can Jewish institutions and we as 
individual Jews do to solve this problem? Off the top of my head I 
can think of a few things, but I'm not sure that they are the best 
ideas. One thing we might do is to use what economic clout we have to 
get business to either move decent paying jobs to the inner city and 
rural areas (a lot of the country's poverty is in rural areas) or 
provide affordable transportation from these areas to the places 
where jobs are located. Secondly, Jewish institutions might take the 
initiative to establish affordable day care programs and provide job 
training scholarships  for people wishing to move off welfare. I know 
that Jewish institutions are having a hard enough time funding 
programs which benefit the Jewish community, but programs like this 
will ultimately benefit our community in the sense that, if we don't 
do something, our whole society may crumble around us. We know first 
hand what happens when a society gets desperate and looks for 
scapegoats. What do others think about my not-fully-thought-out 
ideas?

Jeffrey M. Cohen                      Voice: 518-442-5539
Office for Research (AD 218)          Fax:   518-442-3560
The University at Albany              
State University of New York                
1400 Washington Ave.                          
Albany, NY 12222

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From: gmneudel@ecn.uxa.bgu.edu (Marian Neudel)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 00:16:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Non-Jews in a Jewish Cemetary

Stephanie Wells <swells1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>This is an affecting story, but I find it hard to believe on one count.  I
>remember very well my grandmother, a nurse, being upset because infants who
>died unbaptized could not be buried in a Catholic cemetery.  She, like Jerry,
>found it outrageous that these children were buried in unconsecrated ground.
>The Church's position may well have changed in the last 30 or 40 years, but
>NOT at the time of which Jerry writes.  That infant would have been refused
>burial in a Catholic cemetery as well.  I agree with Jerry's sentiments, but
>that part of his story seems to be apocryphal.

All of this reminds me of one of James Baldwin's novels (sorry, can't remember 
which one) in which one of the main characters commits suicide, and there is a 
dispute in his church over whether his body can be buried in "holy ground." The 
preacher resolves it by pointing out that "every bit of ground God ever made is 
holy."

Marian Neudel

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From: beryl@ix.netcom.com (Beryl Blickstein)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 15:46:29 -0800
Subject: Religion with Public Funds

As a boy, and the only Jew in my elementaryschool class, I had to sit through
countless Christian prayers during school hours. We also had a "released time"
period, one hour per week, for Bible Class, during which we were all taken
into the Music Room and lectured to by two very sincere, committed Christian
ladies. Everyone went. Nobody ever asked if I wanted to be exempt. Nor, given
the peer pressure on a Third grader, am I certain what my response would have
been.

To this day, I cringe at the thought of prayers of any type in the public
schools, or any type of religious display on public space. If my Christian
friends and neighbors wish to erect a Christmas display, why let them buy or
lease a piece of ground and do so. Similarly, if the Lubavitchers wish to use
Chanukah to further their programmatic goals, let them likewise obtain a
suitable non-public site and erect a Menorah or, if they are so inclined, a
replica of the Second Temple.

Religion is a private matter. Organized religion is a mechanism whereby
like-minded individuals can come together to give expression to their
beliefs. It should not become a means for either direct confrontation or
subtle coercion of others to "see the light" as they see it.

Keep the Christmas trees and Menorahs out of City Hall and the prayers 
out of the public schools. 

Beryl Blickstein
Silver Spring MD

Beryl Blickstein beryl@ix.netcom.com

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"It is not our task as liberal Jews to complain about the Orthodox attitude or to be bullied by it, but rather to choose our legitimate path according to the inner logic and development of liberal Judaism" (Rabbi Walter Jacob)

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