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| Volume 3 Number 104 | Sun Feb 6 23:55:06 1994 |
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 1994 12:15:28 -0700 From: ac238@freenet.hsc.colorado.edu (Arthur K. Bernstein) Subject: Re: Blind Luck? In v3n102 (Feb 3) Susan Daniels says: >G-d is good. Only good things come from G-d. If somethings happens to me >that I identify as bad maybe in a larger sense it is not bad only it appears >that way to me because I am not G-d. and our Moderator adds: >That Friday night, at services, our Rabbi brought up the very subject. To the >best of my recollection, he too pointed out that the good things come from >G-d, but natural calamities don't. G-d made the world, he made the tectonic >plates and put them in motion. From there, natural law takes over. But we were >also given the capacity to prepare and to innovate solutions. -- Yr. Mod.] I do not challenge anyone's religious faith, so in asking the following questions I am *not* arguing for any view on this issue. I consider myself a faithful Jew with strong bonds to Judaism, but I cannot find for myself (emotionally or intellectually) this kind of relationship to God--I wish I could, I'm sure that would relieve me of much stress and turmoil. I have rationalized for myself where and how I address my participation in Judaism's ritual and practice, but that is a private matter that I do not wish to discuss. Not being face-to-face with anyone, it is easier for me to express this feeling here than with members of my congregation or with my rabbi. (1) Does Susan accept the idea that evil exists--inexplicable, but nevertheless real? From whence comes real evil, and not just good misunderstood as evil? (Please do not suggest I read Rabbi Kushner's book -- I have, and it helps me not at all.) (2) Dan, do you think your rabbi was suggesting a form of deism? Deism can rationally explain a lot of things, but is it "Jewish"? Nothing human being will ever be able to do will stop tectonic plates from moving, so earthquakes will be with us as long as "Earth abides;" and (as a structural engineer with dynamic design experience), short of abandoning earthquake prone zones we will never be able to totally eliminate the destruction and suffering from earthquakes. (Anyway, other natural disasters and agonies in an endless variety of forms, for which humanity cannot be be held accountable, will continue as our human lot for ages to come.) [I don't know -- I'd have to ask him, which I won't get the chance to do until I return and print these out for him. -- Yr. Mod.] Shalom, Art
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 16:45:28 EST From: Sherman Kaplan <sherman780@aol.com> Subject: Re: Divine Providence In re God's Providence and the following quote from Wm James: God's existence is the guarentee of an ideal order that shall be permanently preserved. This world may indeed, as science assures us, some day burn up or freeze; but if it is a part of his order, the old ideals are sure to be brought elsewhere to fruition, so that where God is, tragedy is only provisional and partial, and shipwreck and dissolution are not the absolutely final things. William James, "Varieties of Religious Experience", 1902, p. 507 SK replies: The above and statments like it elsewhere reflect Mankind's hubris in the belief that we are something special and owed something by a Divine Providence. We would be better as species if we were self reliant enought to realize and accept the fact that whatever change or Progress befalls Mankind comes from own effort, without any Supernatural , nonexistant assistance.
Date: 02 Feb 1994 23:28:53 -0500 (EST) From: BORTS%HWS.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Barbara Borts) Subject: Re: Getting Romantic about Hassidism I wish to comment on 2 points. 1 - the "only issue" I have with Chassidim and any other Orthodox grouping is not about "insisting that I make brachas". The obstacle is their attitude toward the participation of women in the "tzibbur" (community). From the outset, therefore, I cannot participate in discussion, exploration, serious consideration of any aspects of that kind of a traditional Jewish life. And that is not to say that I would be happy with a more authoritarian approach, just that I cannot even enter the door to explore it because it excludes me from the outset. And I am saddened and disappointed that on a Liberal Jewish list, no one has brought up this important plank of non-Orthodox Judaism, namely, the participation of women as obligated and equal Jews. To those interested in Irish Jewry - I was ordained and worked in London for 15 years, so am somewhat acquatined with the Irish Jewish world. I do have contacts, if you are interested. BBortsa
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 94 10:23:00 -0800 From: dinitz@tss.com Subject: God Doesn't Throw Bricks Blindly God doesn't throw bricks blindly. (Apologies to Albert Einstein.) This is very interesting. In v3n102 we saw three responses to Alex's analogy. Sherman Kaplan writes: > Well, Alex...if you want to go ahead and worship a god who throws > bricks willy nilly, that's the kind of freedom that makes this > country great. Frankly, I think you example only underscores my > contention that it is all a crapshoot. In other words, such a God wouldn't be worth worshiping, so God must not exist. Joel Ehrlich writes: > Jewish tradition has always condemned this type of behavior. G-d's > actions and justifications may be well beyond our discernment, but > we still take it on faith that G-d *is* ethical. In other words, such a God wouldn't be worth worshiping, so that analogy must be a poor explanation of how God acts regarding earthquakes. Joel and Sherman both agree that a such God wouldn't be worth worshiping. Yet they come to very different conclusions. Susan Daniels writes: > G-d is good. Only good things come from G-d. If somethings happens > to me that I identify as bad maybe in a larger sense it is not bad > only it appears that way to me because I am not G-d. This is one approach to theodicy. I'm reluctant to take this route because God would disagree with the assertion that only good things come from God. These are the words of our prophet Isaiah [45:7]: "I fashion light and create darkness, "Yotzer or uvorei hoshech, I make peace and create evil -- oseh shalom uvorei ra, I, Adonai, make these." ani YHVH oseh kol eleh." Our morning liturgy paraphrases this passage, praising God who "...makes peace and creates everything." God is the source of both good and evil, and of everything in between -- which is where I'd categorize natural disasters. However, I do agree with both Susan and Joel that concerning what God does and why, our understanding is necessarily incomplete. We can learn a great deal about how the world's physical processes work, but we can never know with certainty why God brings destruction, death and misery in the form of earthquakes, ice storms, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes or disease. We have the right to hold God responsible for such calamities, though we shouldn't necessarily expect to receive a satisfactory explanation. Conversely, when we are spared the worst effects of such disasters, we have the right to give thanks for divine providence, yet we can't always expect to understand why we received such a gift. And whether God's behavior seems just or wrong to us, _we_ still have to behave ethically and responsibly. Reuven: What do you think about divine providence? Shimon: Providence is OK, but Newport is a really swell place. Rick [dinitz@tss.com] Copyright 1994, Rick Dinitz
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 12:00:19 -0500 (EST) From: David/Jayne Guberman <guberman@world.std.com> Subject: God, creator of good and evil Susan Daniels <sdaniels@bongo.cc.utexas.edu> wrote (on the subject "Blind Luck?"), in part: >G-d is good. Only good things come from G-d. . . . I apologize in advance that I do not have the time, and perhaps not the ability, to offer a fuller response. Nevertheless, I think it worth noting that, in the Greco-Roman era, there were those who believed that the universe is divided into two forces, good and evil, that were on a collision course. They were the Gnostics. Rabbinic Judaism accepted this idea to a limited extent, holding that the end of time will see a triumph of the good. The good was associated with light, bad with darkness. Thus, for example, havdalaha differentiates between light and darkness. But rabbinic Judaism rejected the Gnostic idea of two gods, one good and one evil. According to rabbinic Judaism, as we repeat each morning, God created everything, light and darkness -- good and evil. I hasten to add that this view does not imply that God is evil. Rather, as I understand it, the position is that God is the sole creator of the universe. Since the universe as we experience it contains evil, God is, as it were, the creator of the evil as well as of the good. The alternative, which the rabbis rejected, would seem to be to acknowledge the existence either of a second power in heaven or of limitations on God's omnipotence, i.e., that evil results from forces in the universe beyond God's control. Respectfully, David A. Guberman
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 13:31:36 -0800 From: Rick Dinitz <tekbspa!dinitz@uunet.uu.net> Subject: Re: Ritual Imperative I wrote: >> Another way to find certainty in a Reform context is by taking >> seriously the concept of informed choice. God expects one (as a >> Reform Jew) to: >> 1. learn about every aspect of Jewish religious life, >> 2. actively choose a path of practice based on that knowledge, >> 3. follow through with appropriate observance. Alex resonded: > I might be convinced of its viability if Reform fostered a belief in > a close personal daily contact with G-d, but the reality is that it > doesn't. So what is the motivation to do all this stuff if one > doesn't have (love/friendship/awe/duty) to G-d in mind? I certainly agree that God can be an excellent motivator. To love, friendship, awe and duty, I would add partnership, respect, desire, intimacy and appreciation. Yet even if one doesn't relate to God with any of those qualities, then perhaps one or more of the 13 motivations for ritual imperative might be sufficient. (I proposed them in m.lj v3n80.) Still, I think Alex is looking at a two-way street and insisting that traffic flows in only one direction. He seems to ask why anyone would observe Jewish rituals without first having a close personal relationship to God. My experience has been that Jewish ritual is one of the roads we can travel to arrive at an inner closeness to God, to deepen a shallow relationship with God, and even to make us aware of God's presence for the first time. So I'll venture to add another possible motivator to my list: 14. Hunger for God We must because Jewish ritual is a time-tested vehicle for understanding ourselves, God, the world God created, and our place in it. If we feel God is distant, it would be foolish to ignore the lifeline that God has thrown to us. If we God feels vague or nebulous to us, how can we refuse the eyeglasses provided for our benefit. Rick [dinitz@tss.com] Copyright 1994, Rick Dinitz
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 10:32:15 -0500 From: david@porsche.visix.com (David Charlap) Subject: VR model of the Temple of Jerusalem Julian Yudelson <YUDELSON.JE@a1.rit.edu> writes: >I never knew that IBM stood for "I Believe in Moshich" before. I mean, one >of the problems faced by those who proposed rebuilding the TEmple is the loss >of the worm (the name escapes me) whichcut the stone without the use of >metal. With virtual reality all the stones will be made from sand (silicone >chips) that would not be cut but joined to make an image. But what would God think of sacrificing virtual animals on a virtual altar? :-)
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